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Auteur Sujet: Martial Arts  (Lu 4781 fois)

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Hors ligne BlueRonin

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Martial Arts
« le: 18/01/2017 - 15:28:07 »
I have quite a few questions concerning Martial Arts in Polaris RPG:

1) The way I understand the rules for character creation, skills and combat, a character can have the Martial Arts (Offensive Techniques) combat melee skill without having the Hand-to-hand skill. However, can the Martial Arts skill be used in lieu of the Hand-to-hand skill in order to make a normal ‘Melee Test’ attack?
 
 Under "Using Martial Arts" on page 223 of the CRB1 it says "a character who uses a Martial Arts Skill may employ one (...) of the techniques described below". Since the rules says the character may use a technique, it infers an option. Does that option refer to being able to make a normal ‘Melee Test’ attack without the use of any Offensive Techniques?
Furthermore, if a character only had the “Offensive Techniques” Martial Arts skill, and not the “Defensive Techniques” nor the Hand-to-hand skill, what would she roll on his Opposed Test if being attacked in melee when unarmed? The Base Skill level determined by STR/COO (for Hand-to-hand)?

2) Can Martial Arts (Wrestling) technique "Throwing" be used by the untrained, just as with locks (a the rulebook says "throws use the same rules as locks")?

3) Can any of the Martial Arts (Offense) techniques be used with weapons - apart from the obvious "Wielding Two Weapons at Once"? For instance, can a character perform a "Precise Blow" with a knife, using Armed Combat melee skill limited by Martial Arts (Offense)?

 
« Modifié: 18/01/2017 - 18:29:05 par BlueRonin »

Hors ligne BlueRonin

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #1 le: 18/01/2017 - 18:53:14 »
 Regarding Martial Arts (Wrestling):
 
 4) If an Officer attacks an Investigator in melee (just using the pre-generated characters as examples in reference to their stats), and the Investigator decides to employ Martial Arts (Wrestling) as the defender in the Opposed Test for the Melee Test: If the Investigator wins the Opposed Test, when does he execute the Wrestling technique? Immediately, as a reaction to the attack? Or does the success merely mean the two are now grappling, and the Investigator must wait until his next initiative step in order to perform a Wrestling technique as a combat action?
 
 5) If a Marine Commando wants to pin a Pilot, is the following timing of the tests correct?

  • Action Phase 16: Marine Commando (Base Initiative 16) grapples the Pilot (Preparation -3). Successful Opposed Melee Test means the two are grappled.
  • Action Phase 15: Pilot (Base Initiative 15) is grappling with the Marine Commando, so he spends his Combat Action making an untrained attempt to "Disengaging From and Breaking Free of Grapples" (Martial Arts (Defense) Technique). He fails, so the two remain grappled.
  • Action Phase 14
  • Action Phase 13: Marine Commando now spends his combat action executing a Holding/Pinning technique on the Pilot - if he succeeds he's got the Pilot pinned in a lock.
This seems to contradict the description on handling Preparations on CRB1 p. 212, however; where "if a Player's declared choice of action requires a change in the initiative of his character, this takes effect immediately". Yet following this, the Marine Commando would change his initiative to a temporary initiative of 13 when declaring intent. But if so, when do you do the Opposed Melee Test to grapple, then? Since a "grapple counts as a Preparation and costs 3 initiative points" and not an action?

(Edit: I re-read these rules yesterday evening, and I'm still really unsure of the grappling rules - is the Opposed Melee Test for grappling the same test as the Oppsed Melee Test specific for each Wrestling technique? Or is it as I first thought, that first you grapple - and once two opponents are grappling you can then do Wrestling techniques?)
« Modifié: 19/01/2017 - 08:47:18 par BlueRonin »

Hors ligne BlueRonin

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #2 le: 19/01/2017 - 12:04:42 »
Thank you kindly, Cyrull; that clears some things up. Just one questions remains, though; regarding Wrestling/grappling:

6. When you say "the attacker fails and the defender grapples the attacker and uses his wrestling technique immediately" is using the wrestling technique another Opposed Test, or do you simply apply the results of the primary opposed test to the intended technique?

I'm having a hard time distinguishing between Opposed Tests that establish the grapple, and the Opposed Tests that execute the technique. It seems to me that when a character uses Martial Arts (Wrestling) to defend, it is two Opposed Tests. Such as in your first example, where the defender beats the attacker in the first Opposed Test, then executes his technique in a second Opposed Test.

However, when a character attacks with wrestling, it seems more likely to be one opposed test? Looking at your second example, "He attacks with a wrestling technique, he wins the opposed test, grapples his opponent and use his technique" - is all that accomplished based on one Opposed Test? Or are you still rolling two Opposed tests 'within' that one action? I.e. one test to grapple and another test to use the technique?

7. A couple additional questions follows on this one (if indeed the answer is two Opposed Tests) - if a character successfully grapples an adversary, but fails the technique; are the two still grappling? I.e is "grappling" a continuous state seperate from the wrestling techniques, or just a short preamble to the technique itself.

8. If grappling is a "seperate state" - can the Defense Technique "Disengaging From and Breaking Free of Grapples" be used to break a successful Holding/Pinning or Chokehold, or just a grapple?

Sorry about getting into the nitty-gritty of these rules, but I appreciate hearing how this is usually played. :)

Thanks again!
« Modifié: 19/01/2017 - 12:14:41 par BlueRonin »

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #3 le: 19/01/2017 - 14:18:04 »
i have removed my first message, I'm preparing a more complete answer.

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #4 le: 19/01/2017 - 14:56:55 »
 1/ problem of translation here. It should be : "a character may use a Martial art skill to..." The "may" refers to the use of the skill not a technique. So, martial arts skills can only be used with a technique and if you must defend without having Defense techniques, you use the base skill level of Hand-to-hand.
 We can explain this by the fact that you can learn all your life a grappling technique but if you don't know how to fight "dirty" in a street, you'll have a problem to win a fight.
 
 2/yes
 
 3/in some cases.
 
 4/ok, when two opponents are fighting in close combat, they must use an appropriate skill : heavy weapons, armed combat or hand-to-hand combat. The opposed test will be resolved with one of this skill if the protagonists want to damage each other (it’s acceptable that a character who wants only evade an attack use skills like Acrobatics to evade an attack but he’ll not be able to damage his opponent even if he wins the opposed duel).
a/if a character wants to use a technique, the skill he uses is limited by his level in Martial Art (as indicated in the description of the skill even if it’s not very clear… but it should have been also indicated page 222… it’s not the case).
Exemple : a character wants to use Wrestling and he has Hand-to-hand combat at level 12 and wrestling at level 8. He will make his opposed test at level 8.
b/the same character wants to use a wrestling technique but he is not in contact with his adversary. He will have a penalty of -3 to his initiative. Even with this penalty, he still has the initiative and he is the attacker. He makes his opposed test with his hand-to-hand combat skill limited by his level in wrestling… 8. He wins the opposed test. He has grabbed his adversary and uses his technique without any other test (the “grappling” action triggers the technique). In fact, you can see the martial art skills like skills that give a special effect to the attack.
If he is the defender because his adversary acts before him and he wins the opposed test (but remember that his hand-to-hand skill is at level 8 because he is wrestling), the attacker fails and the defender grapples the attacker then uses his wrestling technique immediately without any other test. He “pre-empts” his initiative.
The preparation for a wrestling attack is only used if the character who wants to use a wrestling technique must move in close to grapple his adversary.
A character wants to use a wrestling technique but he is not in contact with his adversary. He will have a penalty of -3 to his initiative. With this penalty, he hasn’t the initiative. His adversary comes close and attacks with his fists. If the defender wins the opposed test, he grapples his opponent and uses his technique. He takes his action immediately without waiting his initiative.
In the cases where you think that the attacker is too far away from the defender (with a whip for example) or if you think that the defender isn’t in position to grapple the attacker, he must wait his initiative even if he has won the opposed test.
 
« Modifié: 19/01/2017 - 16:00:12 par Cyrull »

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Re : Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #5 le: 19/01/2017 - 15:44:26 »
Excellent, thanks again Cyrull! So Martial Arts skills are in practise employed as limiting skills to the 'normal' melee skills in order to achieve an additional effect. Furthermore, wrestling effects are 'calculated' from the original Opposed Test - no additional Opposed Test is required when the technique is applicable. Those are very helpful clarifications!

I now realise that my third question was poorly formulated. However, from your reply my understanding is that a character with both Armed Combat and Martial Arts (Offensive techniques) skills can employ a offensive technique when attacking with a weapon by limiting the skill? For example, a character with Armed Combat (12) and Martial Arts (Offense) (8) can choose to make a knife attack with Full Force Blow (Success probability 8, as limited by the lower skill), adding an additional +3 to the knife's damage if the attack is successful?

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #6 le: 19/01/2017 - 15:59:43 »
Yes, in some cases, I think that you can use Martial arts techniques with short weapons.

Hors ligne BlueRonin

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #7 le: 19/01/2017 - 16:06:09 »
Yeah, I can see that! Precise Blow comes to mind... :)

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #8 le: 04/04/2017 - 23:16:49 »
On Martial Arts: Defense Techniques - Dodge (Retreats Only)

It says on p. 224 (CRB1):

Citer
This combat technique gives the character the +5 bonus normally associated with a Retreat Action, but without having to yield any ground.

However, there is no "Retreat Action" that I can find mentioned.

How does this work?

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #9 le: 05/04/2017 - 09:26:55 »
It's an optional combat mode, Corerules book 2 page 195.

Hors ligne BlueRonin

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Re : Martial Arts
« Réponse #10 le: 05/04/2017 - 11:05:26 »
Ah, there we go... man, my bad! I thought I had checked both books, but I missed the combat modes! Thank you, that clears up my questions regarding Dodge and Extened Reach!